Episode Transcript
[00:00:24] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Josh.
[00:00:24] Speaker B: And I'm Gabriel.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: And today on reading the Gospel, we are studying the event, Jesus meets Thomas. This is found in two of the Gospels. In Mark, chapter 16, verse 14, and in John 20, verses 24 through 29. Follow along with us in John, chapter 20, beginning in verse 24.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Now, Thomas, one of the 12 called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.
So that the other disciples told him, we have seen the Lord.
But he said to them, unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails and place my finger into the marks of the nails and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.
[00:01:10] Speaker A: Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, peace be with you. Then he said to Thomas, put your finger here and see my hands, and put out your hand and place it in my side.
Do not disbelieve, but believe. Thomas answered him, My Lord and my God. Jesus said to him, have you believed because you have seen me. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.
This is an amazing event, and we need some backstory to this.
Two events ago, we talked about the two disciples on the road to Emmaus.
Jesus comes and he opens a scripture to them. They get to Emmaus, and they invite him into the house. He breaks bread, and they realize, oh, this is Jesus. And then they get up and they go back to Jerusalem immediately. And the Bible says they meet with the 11 disciples. Now, at this time, Judas had gone and taken his life. So there were 11 left.
This includes Thomas.
But somehow Thomas apparently left. For whatever reason, he leaves this room. And then there's the previous event we studied. It's Jesus appearing to the disciples in this room.
And so he appears to them. They see him, Thomas comes back, and now they're all telling Thomas, and he has a statement. He says, unless I see his hands and the mark of his nails and place my finger into the mark of the nails and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.
That's a. That's a bold statement.
[00:03:06] Speaker B: What's interesting is that the disciples in the previous event did exactly that. Jesus Christ showed them the mark of the nails, and they did not believe.
And they are still looking at him, shocked and disbelieved. And eventually he said, look, I'm not a spirit because the spirit doesn't have flesh and bones. Give me something to eat. And after they ate, they really believed him and they were ready for his Bible study.
[00:03:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm sure they relayed that like, we got to touch him, we got to see the, the hole in his hand. And I put my finger in there.
And so Thomas is, well, unless I get to do this, I'm never going to believe.
[00:03:49] Speaker B: Jesus granted Thomas this request.
I see here Jesus and the only God going the extra mile in providing extra evidence that is necessary for us to be the foundation for our faith.
This minimum necessary evidence on which to establish faith is tailored and is different from individual to individual, from generation to generation.
Some people might need more evidence or repeated evidence.
I'm very impressed how God goes the extra mile to reveal his presence, to reveal himself, to give us more and more evidence until he consider this is minimum necessary for our faith.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
How much evidence do we need?
You know, what do we need to believe in God?
[00:04:53] Speaker B: So there is a verse in the Book of Job, I think it's chapter 33.
And I'm going to find that verse. It's a very, very interesting story about God revealing himself in different way, primarily visions and dreams.
And in verse 29 says, behold, God does all these things twice or three times with a man to bring him back his soul from the pit that he might be lighted with the light of life.
So in the day of judgment, a decision will be made, as it is throughout the Bible, based on this principle, at least two or three testimony.
[00:05:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:41] Speaker B: And I go, I think that God goes the extra mile will give us way more evidence and sometimes will be repeated.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: Which makes me think about street preachers.
You know, we stand on the side of the road and hold up a sign and we expect people to believe.
But oftentimes what it takes for people to believe is multiple interactions. And it's not saying we shouldn't go out and share the good news of Jesus in the public space. We should. But we should understand that people might not readily accept and say, oh yes, sign me up, let me join.
It's one piece of the puzzle that they're going through.
[00:06:26] Speaker B: Faith is a gradual experience and God reveals himself also gradually.
Like that verse from Proverbs 4:18.
God's revelation toward us is like the light that starts dim early in the morning and it grows until it reaches the midday.
And God is giving us more and more evidence.
Hopefully one day that will be enough for us to put our trust in Him.
[00:06:59] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And you know, Paul talks about the different people who watered and planted and watered and harvested that, that we all have a part to play in bringing people closer to God. And it might not be that Put your finger in the nails of his hand moment. But it could be telling the story. Little things that help plant those seeds that help strengthen the faith.
[00:07:27] Speaker B: Yes, we have to plant the seed, and the seed has to germinate, but we have to cultivate it. That is a long process of growing.
[00:07:36] Speaker A: Yeah. So in this story, when Jesus comes to Thomas, this is eight days later.
I wonder how that week went. You know, what was Thomas like? I don't believe Jesus. If he held onto that belief that I don't believe he rose again. Eight days later, Jesus comes. And Jesus uses the same words.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:01] Speaker A: That he used.
He says, here, place your finger in my hand. Stick your hand in my side.
See that I am here.
And I think that's pretty amazing. I kind of wonder about God's sense of humor, if he set it up in a way that they were up in heaven laughing about it later, like, oh, that was really cool how that happened.
But I wonder what went through Thomas's mind that week.
[00:08:35] Speaker B: So that week was dedicated to one of the major celebrations in the people of Israel, the Passover week, or technically, the unleavened bread festival.
And it started on Friday evening when Jesus Christ died for our sins. In fact, at the same time the lamb was supposed to be sacrificed, they would eat the Passover the next day. And they have different ceremonies and teachings and meetings at the temple for the rest of the week.
So here are they one week later, most likely the next Sunday.
And Jesus Christ, even if he was supposed to meet with the disciples on the Mount of Galilee, he kind of goes the extra mile to give an additional unplanned evidence to Thomas himself.
And I see God's love that always goes the extra mile comes closer to us, brings additional evidence.
And I see God's love for that.
[00:09:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
And so God's going to do everything he can to reveal himself to us.
If we have an open and honest heart, it doesn't mean that he's going to reveal himself in the way that we want him to. You know, we see people constantly coming to Jesus, hey, Jesus, do this and do that, and I'll believe. You know, make. Make bread, and we'll. We'll eat and we'll make you king.
But that's not how God works. God is not a vending machine to give us what we want, but he will reveal himself to us in ways that we can stand and say, I know that my redeemer lives. I believe in God 100%. I can't draw you a picture of what he looks like. But I know that God is there.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: And I like Thomas final reaction. It is, yes, he started lower than the other disciples.
After eight days of numerous evidence from Simon and women disciples and the angels of the tomb and the two coming from Emmaus, Jesus Christ revealing himself so much evidence in the previous Sunday and he's still not believing. Yeah, but Jesus Christ takes him from that low point all the way up to explode.
My Lord and my God.
And this is a very strong evidence of the divinity of Jesus Christ.
[00:11:27] Speaker A: I wonder if Thomas actually put his finger in the hand of Jesus and his hand in the side. I wonder if that he did that because it doesn't say he did it here. Jesus said this and then he responds with my Lord and my God.
I wonder if it was just that was enough for the disciples. They needed to touch and they just still didn't believe. They needed to feed him.
But now Thomas sees Jesus. Jesus says this and he's like, my Lord, my God.
[00:11:54] Speaker B: And even this statement, it's amazing. Yeah, my Lord and my God.
That means I don't need more evidence.
I know that you are God and I know that you are my Lord, the Lord of my life. You are going to live, lead my life from now on.
[00:12:14] Speaker A: Jesus finishes with, have you believed because you have seen me. Blessed are those who have seen, who have not seen.
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. And this comes down to us. Yes, that we were not there on that day.
But we believe.
And we believe because of the other evidences in our lives.
There's evidence around us. And we as Christians should be like crime scene investigators or detectives looking for evidences and clues that God is real and God exists.
And as we study, study scripture, study nature, study history around us, we can strengthen that belief and strengthen our catalog of evidence that God is real.
[00:13:11] Speaker B: Yes, he is.
[00:13:13] Speaker A: Let us pray.
Father. God, we are thankful that you came and you appeared to Thomas in the right time.
And Father, we're thankful that you meet us and give us all the evidence that we need.
I pray that we will search for you.
We will search for you in the scriptures daily. We will search for you in nature. We will search for you through history. We will search for you among godly people.
And that when we find you, we will share you with others, that we will be your witnesses to the world.
I ask that you go with us now and guide us in all we do in Jesus name.
[00:13:57] Speaker B: Amen.
[00:13:57] Speaker A: Amen.
