Episode Transcript
[00:00:24] Speaker A: Josh. And I'm Gabriel.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: And today on reading the Gospel, we are studying the event the rich man and Lazarus. This is found in Luke, chapter 16, beginning in verse 19. And we're going to be reading all the way through the end of the chapter. Follow along with us.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: As we read, there was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted Sam chose every day.
And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table.
Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores.
The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side.
The rich man also died and was buried and in Hades. Being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: And he called out, father Abraham, have mercy on me. And send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame. But Abraham said, child, remember that you in your lifetime receive good things and Lazarus in like manner bad things. But now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. And besides all this between us and you, a great chasm has been fixed in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able and none may cross from there to us. And he said, then, I beg you, father, send him to my father's house, for I have five brothers, that he may warn them, lest they also come to this place of torment.
But Abraham said, they have Moses and the prophets. Let them hear them. And he said, no, Father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent. And he said to them, if they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.
This story here, is this a headline, a spiritual headline that Jesus is sharing with the world of a story that took place in real life, and he's preparing people or what's going on here.
[00:03:02] Speaker A: So this story is part of the same chapter, Luke, chapter 16. And in a previous episode, we saw that Jesus Christ used a story which started as a real story, but in the second part, he gave it a twist, and that became a fictional story because no owner will ever commend a manager for stealing or robbing himself.
I see this as a potential fictional story which is being used by Jesus Christ to make a point or a couple of very, very clear points. And maybe this is the time to remind our listeners that we never found a major christian teaching on a parable yeah. Parables, as we call them in theology, are not sedas. Doctrine, are not foundation for doctrines, because there are many elements in those stories, many details, which are very hard to interpret. What we focus in each parable is the final teaching, the moral of these parables. And the moral is very clear. It is in verse 31 that even if it's hypothetical, even if someone will rise from the dead and will go to let other people know on the other side of, even in that situation, people will not transform, change their course of life. Jesus Christ performed so many miracles, and none of them have transformed people's characters. Yes, miracles are very important. Jesus performed miracles to grab people's attention, so they understand that he's messiah. He comes from heaven. He has this divine power to perform.
[00:04:57] Speaker B: Miracles and to release the burdens and the bonds of sin.
[00:05:02] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely.
[00:05:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: But primarily, Jesus Christ performed miracles as signs to grab people attention. So this is the main teaching here we have the Bible, and the Bible communicates the will of God, who God is and what he expects us to do. And if we obey Moses and the prophets, the Bible in those times, that is the foundation for what we believe and for how we live our life.
[00:05:33] Speaker B: And so there are many similarities, as you said, between this parable and the last one. They both have deal with a rich man, this one, just like the last one. The beginning of the parable could be true. It could be speaking of an actual person. And there's this rich man clothed in fine linen. He lived a wonderful life. And at his gate was a poor man covered in sores.
Did the rich man have any responsibility.
[00:06:05] Speaker A: To that poor man in the old Testament? Now I'm going to go back to Moses and the prophets. The lord said, you will always have the poor among you. So the poor people were allowed to live next to rich people. So the POOr PeOPle will be a test for the rich PeOPlE. If you have received from God, you share with others. So logically, this parable is a continuation of the previous one, dishonor manager. And this is a very good example that the rich man was a dishonor manager. He received riches from God, and he did not pass them on to those around him.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Then we get into verse 22. And at this point, the question is, is this literal or is this figurative? Because we have what could be a description of heaven and hell or the grave, or we have this StorY playing out.
[00:07:09] Speaker A: So this is the turning point where I see this parable as going fictional, because if the parable would be literal, Jesus ChrisT will teach that poor people go to heaven and rich people go to hell.
Or this idea has been developed in mid sixty s and seventy s in south America and was sold around the world under the title theology of LiberatioN, liberation from poverty, from oppression, from slavery. And heaven was depicted as a place and a time when everything will be set right, will be flipped over, and heaven is a reward for the poor.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: If this was literal, heaven would be a pretty depressing place because you have Lazarus at the side of Abraham, and there's this great chasm that they can see across like a glass wall. Yeah. And they can see someone being tortured. And this person, this RICH man, is there in bodily know. He's not a spirit, he's not a soul. He's got his whole body there being.
[00:08:31] Speaker A: Finger and tongues and eyes and mouth to speak, and he's talking.
[00:08:36] Speaker B: And there's communication back and forth between these two places. And I cannot imagine heaven being a place that is joyful to be in if you're there and you're able to look over and see a loved one who didn't make it to heaven.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: So imagine that you are the father from the prodigal Son's story in Luke, chapter 15, and your son or your daughter will never make it back to God. Would you enjoy heaven when you see your son, your daughter, your loved ones being tormented over and over and over and over?
[00:09:16] Speaker B: Or just take this story. If Lazarus did go back and warn the brothers and the father, and the brothers and father repented and everything, and then they eventually go to Abraham's side, would it be heaven for them to see their brother being tormented continually?
There are many things that don't line up with our understanding of death in this story.
I think that's not the point of this parable. The point of this parable is how do we respond to the knowledge that we have? What decisions are we making? Because this dead man, his time is up. He can't make more decisions. Yes, it's over for him. And we touched on that last time that we might wait. When I was young, I didn't want Jesus to come before I got married. I didn't want Jesus to come before I got a driver's license. I wanted all these things to happen first. I wanted to enjoy life and then become a Christian. I think there are so many people who are in that boat. They believe in God, but they want to enjoy life and come to God later. And we're not guaranteed that.
[00:10:29] Speaker A: We have only one chance to respond to God's invitation. We have only one life to live. And we have only one opportunity to prepare our characters for heaven. There is no second chance after we die. And even the first chance, as you said, should not be postponed for tomorrow. We should not be spiritual procrastinators. If we hear the voice of God today, respond with, yes. Receive him into your heart. Embrace him. Make him part of your life. And by doing this, you prepare your life to live with God forever.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: And the good thing about doing that is we can be honest with God. There are so many times I'll tell God, God, look, if I'm honest with you, I love this thing more than you, but I don't want to love that more than you. So change me. And it's God's job to do that. It's not our job to do that. It's his job to change us. So if we're in a place where we are wanting to get married, we're wanting to drive, we're wanting the future, we're wanting something before we come to God, we can come to God and be honest and say, look, God, right now I'm not in a place where you're first in my life, but I want to flip that around. So work and do that in me. And so, getting back to the parable, this rich man, Lazarus, he's wanting to warn his brothers, go and show a miracle to my brothers.
Do miracles save people?
[00:12:05] Speaker A: No.
It is Jesus Christ who saves us.
Also, as we said before, miracles do not transform your character, will or might grab your attention about what God is about to do in your life. And this is why, in verse 31, if they do not hear or listen or obey Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if this is hypothetical, if someone should rise from the dead.
[00:12:41] Speaker B: So, getting back to your original question, I guess you talked about, are rich people all going to hell? Is that what this parable, no, we.
[00:12:50] Speaker A: Should not use this parable to extrapolate, to generalize to all people.
No, not at all. We see rich people like Abraham, David, and especially Solomon. Riches are gifts which are entrusted us, and we have to be faithful managers.
This is why we have the first parable, first in Luke 16, and this is the second one. And all of us have different kind of riches. We may not have material possession, but we may have artistic gifts, or we may have communication gifts, or we may have physical beauty. We may have that attraction that people are attracted to us and have the gift of influence, and we become leaders.
We should be faithful in all the gifts that we have received from God.
[00:13:49] Speaker B: To me, I think that's what this parable speaks to the most. Am I being faithful in what God has given me? Am I serving those around me? Those who are in trouble? Those who need help? Those whose lives are not as good as mine? Even those whose lives are better? Am I helping everyone where I can? Or is my focus on myself?
Let us have a word of prayer, Father. As we look at this parable so many times, we wish that we could see miracles. We wish we could see Jesus walking on this earth raising people from the dead because we think it would be easy to believe.
But you have given us everything we need in your word and I pray that we will use what little faith we might have and we will reach out and cling to you and allow you to work in our lives. That we will believe what you have said in your word and we will allow it to draw us closer to you. We pray these things in Jesus name. Amen. Amen.
