Episode Transcript
[00:00:24] Speaker A: Hello.
[00:00:24] Speaker B: I'm Josh.
[00:00:25] Speaker A: And I'm Gabriel.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: And today, on reading the Gospel. We are studying the event where the Pharisees asked Jesus, who are you? This is found in John, chapter eight, verses twelve through 30. Follow along with us.
[00:00:39] Speaker A: As we read again, Jesus spoke to them, saying, I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life. So the Pharisees said to him, you are bearing witness about yourself. Your testimony is not true.
Jesus answered, even if I do bear witness about myself, my testimony is true. For I know where I came from and where I'm going. But you do not know where I come from or where I'm going.
You judge according to the flesh. I judge no one.
Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is true. For it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father who sent me.
In your law, it is written that the testimony of two people is true. I am the one who bears witness about myself. And the Father who sent me bears witness about me.
They said to him, therefore, where is your father?
Jesus answered, you know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also.
These words he spoke in the treasury as he taught in the Temple. But no one arrested him because his hour has not come.
[00:02:09] Speaker B: So he said to them again, I am going away, and you will seek me, and you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come. So the Jews said, will he kill himself? Since he says, where I am going, you cannot come. He said to them, you are from below. I am from above. You are of this world. I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins. So they said to him, who are you? Jesus said to them, just what I have been telling you from the beginning. That I have much to say about you and much to judge. But he who sent me is true. And I declare to the world what I have heard from him. They did not understand that he had been speaking to them about the Father. So Jesus said to them, when you have lifted up the Son of Man. Then you will know I am he. And that I do nothing on my own authority. But I speak just as the Father taught me. And he who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone. For I always do the things that are pleasing to him. As he was saying these things, many believed in him.
So Jesus is yet again having this discussion with the Pharisees. And we've seen this time and time again so far through our reading.
My question is, why does he keep engaging? Why does he keep talking to the Pharisees? Why is he having this conversation with the Pharisees?
Is there hope for them? Are they lost?
Why does Jesus even waste time on them?
[00:04:09] Speaker A: I think that closer to the cross, Jesus engages more with the leaders of the nation. And each engagement is a new opportunity of grace. Each engagement, each conversation is revealing a new facet, a new dimension.
On one side, Jesus Christ is answering their questions.
And practically gives them no reason to accuse him.
And on the other side, Jesus Christ gives them another glimpse of grace. Another revelation of who he is.
[00:04:49] Speaker B: Yeah, for me, I see this know. The Pharisees are also children of God. And Jesus came and died for them as well.
And while he is harsh with know, he says, you will die in your sins. I'm going away, and you will seek me.
While he's sharing this information, there is hope. There's hope for any Pharisee or religious leader. Who wants to repent and turn to.
So I do think he spends a lot of time with them to try to win them as well.
[00:05:27] Speaker A: And I see that getting closer to the cross, Jesus Christ is more direct.
And I think this is a lesson for us.
Before a special event in the sacred history.
The messages coming from God were always more direct. Before the Babylonian slavery, before the flood, in the time of Noah. And I think this is going to be repeated. Just before the second coming of Christ. As we get closer, those who believe in him, those who are called to share the Everlasting Gospel. Will be more and more direct.
And for me, this is like a model of minIstry. A way to understand that we have to be bold at the right time. And to do it the right way.
[00:06:23] Speaker B: Transitioning to another thought. And Jesus says, I'm the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness. But will have the light of life. The Pharisees accuse him of testifying against himself. Is Jesus here being boastful and proud and uplifting himself? Or is there something to say with the Pharisees that he's testifying against himself? Are they right at all?
[00:06:50] Speaker A: I mean, humanly, they might be right. But Jesus Christ comes from another world.
About which human beings know almost nothing.
And Jesus Christ works with the Holy Spirit, which is invisible. It cannot be counted here as a witness. But he said, my Father, who sent me.
Because they knew that Jesus Christ was spending time in prayer. Talking to his father.
This is why they came to the Garden of Gethsemane. When he would generally go and pray.
So Jesus said, my father, who sent me and myself, we are two witnesses, enough to satisfy the law of Moses from the Old Testament.
And of course, the disciples added their voices later when they believed in him after resurrection. It has many more witnesses.
[00:07:50] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I completely agree with you.
So what does this passage tell us about God?
[00:07:57] Speaker A: I really like how Jesus Christ is connected to the Father. And this is the essence of this passage, of this story.
They ask him, who are you? They ask him, what is your Father? They couldn't figure out that special relationship between Jesus and his Heavenly Father.
This is what I like in this story. Jesus and the Father are one.
They are united into a unbreakable communion and union.
This was evidenced all the way to the cross.
[00:08:40] Speaker B: Yeah. To me, when I read this whole passage, it talks about the interconnection between the Father and know we believe the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, that the three of them work together, work in unity.
There's a lot of discussion, a lot of people wondering who Jesus is. Has he always been there? But in the words of Scripture, if we Take Scripture as it is written, Jesus is God, and everything was created by him.
He's been around since the beginning, and so he's here to witness to the Father just as the Father witnesses to him. So I think that's, for me, just this relationship where they support one another, where they witness to one another, where they lift up one another.
So what is this passage telling us today, and what are we going to do about it?
[00:09:46] Speaker A: I really like the way Jesus talks about his father. He knows his father, he obeys his father. He says, my father sent me, and he's trying to reveal his father to a dying world, to a world that has a different father who resembles someone else's character, as we will see in the next episode.
And I hear Jesus Christ going the extra mile, looking for the best words and the best illustrations to reveal a father who is close to him, and he's close to every one of his children, sons and daughters, a father that is close to us. And this is the recurring theme of the Gospel. Jesus Christ came to reveal his father. That is the first and the most important purpose of the Gospel. And this is the good news. In fact, the Father is a loving God who is interested in our well being, and he wants to save us from sin. I like the word that, the expression you mentioned, and by the way, it is repeated three times, you will die in sin if you do not come out of darkness into the light.
And this is how I hear God invited me to come into the light.
Walking in the light is not quite easy. Because we are exposing our thoughts and our actions and our behavior.
And when we feel that we're exposed, we are ashamed, we experience guilt.
But there is no better way than that.
This is what I hear Jesus Christ telling me. Come into the light. Don't remain in the darkness. If you stay in the darkness, you will have to die with your sins. Not because I want to kill you, I want to destroy sin. But if you remain attached to sin, you will suffer the consequence.
[00:12:01] Speaker B: As I read this section, the way it's speaking to me today is probably.
It's unique, it's little, it's different. But this is one of those things that I think points out. As we're talking about reading the Gospel every day.
God speaks to us in different ways. Sometimes a passage, something jumps out to us. That. It's not the normal, it's not the main point, but it might reveal God in a way.
The Pharisees ask, where is your father?
And this question is not, is your father down the street? It's where are you coming from? The Provenance. How do you stand before us?
Looking at this as a Where is your father? Location wise, God is everywhere. And I never picked up on this before.
But the response Jesus answered, you know neither me nor my father. If you knew me, you would know my father also.
These words he spoke in the treasury as he taught in the temple. What's Jesus doing in the treasury?
[00:13:16] Speaker A: Jesus Christ was there. Even when the woman who had two small coins. Everything that she had, gave them to the Lord. And a treasury was like an open space.
Where the treasury boxes were like some receptacles. And the money will go underground, right? The treasury was practically underground.
And that is the area where Jesus Christ and his disciples are sitting down at another place. And they're watching to see what is in the eyes. What is reflected on the face of those who are returning the tithes. Or giving an offering to the Lord.
That is a good place to observe people.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: And this is the same place where the Pharisees were given the silver back from Judas. And they couldn't put it in the treasury because it was blood money. But yeah, that's interesting. I need to study that more. See, even I'm learning new things. But the point is, Jesus is everywhere. And even on earth.
They weren't even able to arrest him. He taught in the treasury, but no one was able to arrest him. That my God is everywhere. And able to do everything he desires to do.
So it gives me peace.
[00:14:47] Speaker A: Yeah. I just want to build on your observation. Where is your father? You still have little children, and if they do something wrong when you are not around, someone will go to them and say, where is your father? Yeah.
So what's behind this question? And behind this question was a specific view of God.
And Jesus Christ came with a counteroffer, with a different view of God, a loving God that is closed, that you want that Father to be close to you, that you can share your heart with that Father. That the Father and you are inseparable. You are always together.
Let's pray.
[00:15:35] Speaker B: Father God, we want to be inseparable. We want to be always connected to you. Wherever we go, whether we lie down or whether we rise up, whether we're sitting in the house or in the way, may we always have you on our mind and in our hearts. I pray that you will always be present with us. And we know that you are.
But we pray that we will be aware of that. In Jesus name, amen. Amen.
